Nuoc Mia Vien Tay - Garden Grove (Little Saigon)

Before this past weekend, the last time I was in the area and stopped off at Boulangerie Pierre & Patisserie (Garden Grove) was in February 2010. It was another day of exploring too many Little Saigon eats starting with Ngu Binh Restaurant - Westminster, then Thanh Tam Bakery - Garden Grove (Little Saigon), before grabbing desserts and fresh sugarcane juice for the drive home.


Nuoc Mia Vien Tay in Garden Grove really started the whole fresh squeezed sugarcane movement in Little Saigon long ago. What? You didn't know there could be such a thing as a fresh squeezed sugarcane movement?

Foodbuzz 24x24: Exploring Vietnamese Regional Cuisine, North, Central, and South, in Little Saigon

When the last helicopter pulled out of Saigon 36 years ago, the Vietnamese population in American numbered in the thousands. Today, there an estimated 1.6 million Vietnamese Americans, with more than 135,000 of them in Orange County, the largest community outside of Vietnam. I've written extensively before about the history of Little Saigon and by extension, Vietnamese American history. So let's move the discussion further to how food and culture assert themselves into the American landscape.

In my musings on American cuisine, I argue that our food is made up of ethnic absorption and mass popularization. American cuisine is a reflection of America itself. Our strength lies in our ability to absorb other cuisines and their culture. No more so is that evident than last month's addition of banh mi, the Vietnamese sandwich, into the Oxford English Dictionary. These days, with trendy bars hawking banh mi sliders and Korean Americans selling their version of Pho Bo (Vietnamese Beef Noodle Soup), having a few Vietnamese dishes enter the American lexicon still doesn't really tell you much about the cuisine.

Needless to say, Vietnamese cuisine is far, far more than sandwiches and beef noodle soup.

Taste and Explore Little Saigon; Help Japan

Part of my aim for the blog, whether consciously or subconsciously, is to show others what's available around them so they can discover it for themselves. But I also get that venturing into new territory can be intimidating. I've long believed that the best way to learn about another cuisine, and by extension another culture, is through someone you trust introducing it to you firsthand. Learning about food through a friend makes unfamiliar dishes familiar, and teaches you about another culture without the prolonged history lectures.

The other aspect of blogging that keeps me engaged is the sense of community that gets formed -- learning from each other, making friends, and uniting over common goals. I don't often talk of current events, but it seems impossible to ignore the devastation in Japan following last month's earthquake and tsunami. Not that natural disasters and their toll should be ignored, just that my ability to do much about them seems miniscule. People do what they can with what they have, and I've always left it at that. A lot of bloggers have been reaching out to do what they can to help -- distributing socks, making quilts for survivors, or selling photography manuals for charity.

Recently, I pitched to my advertiser, Foodbuzz, the idea of exploring northern, central, and southern Vietnamese regional cuisine in Little Saigon for its monthly 24, 24, 24 series. It was accepted. Yay! And while I've done this a few times before, applying the stipend toward the cost of supplies or treating my friends to a nice meal, I'd rather use the stipend this time for something more.

So this coming Saturday, April 30, just in time for the anniversary of the Fall of Saigon, come explore Little Saigon with me.

For a $50 donation, or more if you wish, which will also include several meals, you'll have me as a culinary and historical tour guide to Little Saigon.

Brodard Chateau Vietnamese Cuisine - Garden Grove (Little Saigon)

After lil' sis's graduation, we toyed with various locations in San Diego for dinner, Chinese family-style or fancy steak house? As circumstances dictated, I alerted oldest nephew to a last-minute deal on JetBlue from Long Beach to Portland so he could come home for his brother's graduation, we ended up in Orange County for dinner. Since it was a special occasion, I suggested Brodard Chateau Vietnamese Cuisine. That was just as well since the number of people attending grew from our immediate family to more than a dozen people.

Brodard Chateau is from the same family as the original Brodard Restaurant - Garden Grove (Little Saigon), but fancier. The restaurant's facade is a Swiss? French? chateau-like building. According to The Orange County Register article I read in 2006, the 8,000-square foot chateau opened with 25 employees and operating costs of $100,000 a month. Pretty pricey by anyone's standards, but for a Vietnamese restaurant, unheard of. Was Little Saigon ready for an upscale Vietnamese restaurant?

I think the fact that it's still around four years later says so.

Thanh Tam Bakery - Garden Grove (Little Saigon)

After we left Ngu Binh Restaurant - Westminster, I asked my dad's friend's daughter if she wanted some che (Vietnamese pudding) since were passing by Thach Che Hien Khanh - Garden Grove. She wavered, but in the end, decided she might as well maximize her eating experience while she was in town. So after getting some dessert to-go, I headed further east because my friend DP told me her current favorite Vietnamese sandwich shop was Thanh Tam Bakery.


On the Westminster Avenue side though, all I saw was Thanh Tam Billiards. My friend sent me to a pool hall for banh mi? This couldn't be right? Or could it?

Thach Che Hien Khanh - Garden Grove (Little Saigon)

I've been getting my che (Vietnamese pudding) at Thach Che Hien Khanh for a long time. Well before they expanded the restaurant. Well before they opened a second Thach Che Hien Khanh in Westminster on Bolsa Avenue. Well before they even had a rope to make people form some semblance of a line.

Two people were needed in order to get any che. Back then, I usually went with my friend DP, who introduced me to the restaurant and to a lot of other Little Saigon eats. One of us would wait in the car (because there were never any parking spaces), while the other fought through the crowd to score some dessert. Then we had to do a fast getaway because the cars still kept coming.

This was, and still is, the place to go in Little Saigon for che.

Tip Top Sandwiches - Garden Grove (Little Saigon)

On our way to see the Great Balloon, I decided to stop off for some Vietnamese sandwiches for an impromptu picnic. My first choice was Banh Mi & Che CALI Bakery - Westminster (Little Saigon) for their constant "Buy 2, get 1 free deals," but at the last minute decided to veer off from my usual to try Tip Top Sandwiches.

Light Town House Korean BBQ - Garden Grove (Korean Business District) (Closed)

One of my older cousins on my mom's side was in town, so my siblings and I headed down to Orange County to take him out for the day. What to do with a 50something-year-old cousin? Not much. :P

Since we were in the area, we decided to go to our favorite Korean barbecue restaurant - Seol Ak San - for the kimchee fried rice cooked on a rock slab. Unfortunately, it was closed on a Sunday afternoon. :( So we went to my second favorite choice for Korean barbecue in Orange County - Light Town House Korean BBQ in Garden Grove.

Brodard Restaurant - Garden Grove (Little Saigon)

Yes, yes, the yummy photo is to tide you over as I go off on a tangent. I'll get to the food in a bit, but we're still discussing the wedding you see. We are? Certainly, have you so quickly forgotten the wedding ceremony and reception? And that for several weeks I'm entertaining my cousin and her friend who are visiting from Norway? This part is important as it characterizes the next dozen or so postings. My cousin called to invite me out for lunch before he headed back up to Portland. Now, I've mentioned my many cousins before but they're all on my dad's side. This cousin and his family is pretty much all that's in the U.S. on my mom's side. And my Norwegian cousin is from my mom's side too. So, of course, we had to meet up with him.

Anyway, this was the second time my Norwegian cousin has come out to visit me. Her visits are usually filled with requests to try all the ethnic food she can't get or is vastly more expensive in Norway, and things that she picks up about American culture from television and movies. The first time she came, she wanted to order Chinese food with the traditional take-out boxes (Seinfeld) and a vanilla coke (Pulp Fiction) and to eat at a kitschy 50's-style diner (Johnny Rockets). This time around she requested cannoli (Sopranos perhaps?) and more ethnic food.

Since my Portland cousin was already hanging out in Little Saigon, I suggested Brodard Restaurant in Garden Grove. Brodard is the place to go in Little Saigon for Nem Nuong and Nem Nuong Cuon (Vietnamese Grilled Pork Patty and Vietnamese Grilled Pork Patty Salad Rolls). It's current location is on the back side of the Mall of Fortune, behind the 99 Cents Only store, enter from Brookhurst Street and not Westminster Avenue like its address indicates.

Boulangerie Pierre & Patisserie - Garden Grove (Little Saigon)

Amazingly enough there was still room in our bellies for dessert after our lunch at Vien Dong Restaurant - Garden Grove. So we headed across the street to Boulangerie Pierre & Patisserie.


During their colonization of Vietnam, the French exploited plenty of Vietnamese peasants in their Michelin rubber plantations, but they also left behind their cooking techniques. That's why coffee, French bread, yogurt, flan, and pastries are a regular part of Vietnamese cuisine.

Little Saigon has plenty of French-Vietnamese restaurants, or French-influenced Vietnamese bakeries. Though Boulangerie Pierre & Patisserie is owned by Vietnamese-Americans, the pastry chef is actually French. So you're getting the real deal.

Vien Dong Restaurant - Garden Grove (Little Saigon)

It's hard to separate Little Saigon from its politics. Even when it comes to food.

And no review of Vien Dong Restaurant in Garden Grove is complete without mentioning its former owner, Tony Lam, the first Vietnamese American elected official. Read more about him to read more about him, and read my post about Little Saigon and its history to understand how volatile the Vietnamese American community can be.

The restaurant is now owned by Lam's niece. Back in its heyday, when Lam was on the Westminster City Council, the restaurant was filled with the movers and shakers of Little Saigon who were courting his attention. Lam would often go table to table to greet and chat with every customer.

Despite the lack of his presence now, Vien Dong still retains much of what originally drew customers to the restaurant. It's clean, the portions are large, and the prices are very reasonable. Most dishes are in the $5-$6 range, more for specialty items such as the cha ca Thang Long (Vietnamese Hanoi-style turmeric sizzling fish with dill).

Vien Dong specializes in Northern Vietnamese cuisine. According to Wikipedia, Northern Vietnamese food is more Chinese-influenced with many stir-fries, more soy sauce than fish sauce, black pepper instead of chili for spice, fewer vegetables, and more beef because of the influence from 13th century Mongolian invasions.

Now, I'm no food expert, I just like to eat. A lot. I read a lot too. And travel. So I'd have to disagree with almost all of the above. In my previous discussion of Vietnamese food, I already admitted my preference for South-Central Vietnamese food. But I did eat my way around Hanoi for a full month. And in all honesty, except for Cha Ca Thang Long (Vietnamese Hanoi-Style Turmeric Fish with Dill) and bun cha, Northern food sadly pales in comparison to Central and Southern Vietnamese food. Yes, I think even pho, which originated in the North, is much better down South. I didn't see more stir-fries up North than anywhere else in Vietnam. Since Saigon was settled by Ming dynasty generals and their troops fleeing the Manchus more than 300 years ago, and because there still is a Cho Lon (big market), Saigon's Chinatown, I don't think the North has a monopoly on Chinese-influenced food in Vietnam. And if the food featured more soy sauce and black pepper, I sure didn't notice. There does tend to be less vegetables in the North but that's because of the colder climate and mountainous geography. In comparison, the South enjoys two rice harvests a year. And beef from Mongolian invasions? Like the constant rebellions against Chinese domination, the Vietnamese are also quite proud to have successfully fought off the Mongols. So there!

Now that's Vietnamese food in Vietnam. I've said before that I think Vietnamese food in America is much better because as a wealthier country, we can afford to splurge on ingredients. And with modern movements of people, regional cuisine don't necessarily stay regional.

Most Vietnamese Americans who originally hailed from the North, fled South when the country was divided in 1954. They brought their regional cooking with them, but were influenced by the South. For example, pho, which originated in the North, usually just had beef, rice noodles, and onions or scallions. The way it's mostly served now with basil, sawtooth herb, and bean sprouts is a Southern adaptation. Southern pho also has a much more flavorful broth.

All that excessive background information aside, Vien Dong Restaurant, which specializes in Northern Vietnamese cuisine, was my choice to meet several Orange County food bloggers earlier this month. Elmo of Monster Munching and Chubbypanda, The Epicurious Wanderer, had professed wanting to try bun oc (Vietnamese water snail rice vermicelli soup). We were joined by Rasa Malaysia and Christian Z of Orange County Mexican Restaurants.

Bun cha is one of the few dishes I actually enjoyed during my time in Hanoi. Grilled pork slices and patties swim in a light sweet fish sauce, topped with sliced pickled chayote squash and carrots. Vermicelli rice noodles and various herbs, including mint and cilantro, rounded out the meal. This dish has three variations, with one version including cha gio (Vietnamese egg rolls). I would highly recommend ordering bun cha with cha gio if eating alone, but I was already ordering it as an appetizer.


Vien Dong offers some of the best cha ca Thang Long in Little Saigon. (In the rest of the country, cha (paste) ca (fish) is literally a fish paste patty and is an entirely different dish.) Despite its name, cha ca Thang Long is not actually fish paste. It's tilapia that's been seasoned with turmeric and comes on a sizzling platter with lots and lots of onions, scallions and dill. The use of dill is a distinctly Northern specialty as other regions of Vietnam don't cook with it at all. In Vietnam, the fish used in this dish is ca loc (snakehead), but it's illegal in America because it is very invasive. And at Cha Ca La Vong in Hanoi, the restaurant that claims to have invented this dish several hundred years ago and where the street is named after this dish, the fish comes in chunks and sits in a saucepan with about half an inch of oil. You toss the dill and onions into the oil to wilt before eating.
Unfortunately, in my photo you can barely see the fish under the mound of herbs.

It comes with a side of more herbs, rice vermicelli noodles, fermented shrimp sauce, and toasted sesame rice paper. To eat, grab a little bit of everything into your bowl, and douse it with the smelly shrimp sauce. The blandness of the noodles, the crunch of the rice paper, the slight herbal notes of the turmeric in the fish, the refreshing dill, and the salty goodness of the shrimp sauce hit a little bit of everything on your taste buds.


Chubbypanda was on an oc (snails) kick and ordered these steamed ground pork and oc patties. I've always eaten oc whole and was wary about the loss of flavor when mixed with so much pork, but the patties still tasted really oc-y, if you know what I mean. These came with some gingered fish sauce for dipping, really necessary since oc alone is rather boring and the ginger toned down the fishiness of the oc.


Yes, yet another plate of herbs. Many Vietnamese have a plate of herbs on the table and simply tear off leaves and eat them with everything. I think this plate might have been intended for the oc though.


Look at the golden flaky perfection of the cha gio. You can tell these were wrapped in rice paper and not Chinese egg roll skins. Rice paper wrappers have a lighter, flakier outside layer, while the innermost layer retains a slight chewiness. Although, I was surprised the restaurant didn't call them nem ran, which is what Northerners call cha gio.


Here's the overview picture of everything we ordered.


This is goi mit (Vietnamese green jackfruit salad) with slices of pork, shrimp, chayote squash, carrots, herbs, toasted peanuts, and toasted sesame rice paper. The salad is a little bland and I'd suggest dousing it with lots of fermented shrimp sauce for flavor. Can you spot the unripe jackfruit? It's the flesh-colored chunks on the bottom right corner of this picture.



Now comes the reason why I chose this restaurant. Elmo's first foray into bun rieu oc was disappointing and I had suggested he try Vien Dong's rendition. His verdict? "Truly the best bun rieu oc that I've had (well, okay, I only had it once before), but that was exactly what I hoped bun rieu would taste like. Couldn't get enough of those snails." So with an Elmo endorsement, do I really need to say more?

Bun rieu oc is a tomato-based rice vermicelli noodle soup with minced crab and shrimp patties, water snails, and fried tofu chunks. Vien Dong's version includes plenty of large oc, but the patties are dispersed. Add plenty of fermented shrimp paste and you get a deeply savory broth. Many years ago, I brought two German professors, who were studying the Vietnamese American community, to dine here and they couldn't get enough of the broth and slurped their bowls clean.

Vien Dong's variations of this soup includes the options of shrimp only, crab only, both, and with or without water snails. The bowl of bun rieu oc tom moc, with all of the above, is what you see pictured below.

Another Northern regional specialty that none of us ordered was bun gia cay (fake dog noodle soup). Dog meat is eaten more in the North than the South. (Insert bad Asian stereotype jokes here.) The restaurant's fake dog noodle soup, which uses pork, is a curry-based broth.

Other food suggestions include the yam fries with shrimp, braised pork with hard-boiled eggs, and pork chops with rice. I'd avoid the bun bung though. The description of noodle soup with pork spare ribs, plaintains, and tofu sounds tempting, but I've always been disappointed with its absolute blandness. Though Vien Dong specializes in Northern Vietnamese cuisine, there are plenty of other dishes to please your palate as well.


May 10, 2011 update: More dishes can be seen in my revisit here in my Exploring Vietnamese Regional Cuisine, North, Central, and South, in Little Saigon post.


Vien Dong Restaurant
14271 Brookhurst St.
Garden Grove, CA 92843
714-531-8253

(In case you're interested, Vien Dong Restaurant is located around the corner from the Orange County Islamic Society. The mosque features a dome with separate worship halls for men and women. The building is not aligned with the street, but to face Mecca. There's a Halal meat grocery store at the other end of the strip mall from the restaurant. There are several other Muslim grocery stores along the Vietnamese-dominated businesses on Brookhurst Street.)

Little Saigon, Orange County - California

Updated April 25, 2015 with more recent statistics.


I always think knowing a bit of history enhances the dining experience. And since I've got several Little Saigon eateries to post, I figured a little history lesson is in order.

Little Saigon in Orange County, California is the largest Vietnamese community outside of Vietnam. The 2010 census lists the population at 183,766, but most Vietnamese estimate the community to be at least double that. Add in Los Angeles County and the Vietnamese population swells to 271,234. There are 1.5 million Vietnamese in America, and 40 percent of them live in California. Why is this surprising? Because American government policy specifically dispersed Vietnamese throughout the country in order to facilitate assimilation and to prevent ethnic enclaves. At one point, Vietnamese were scattered across every state and 813 zipcodes. And yet, ethnic enclaves formed anyway. Specifically, Little Saigon. Read more about the Vietnamese in America or read Hearts of Sorrow: Vietnamese-American Lives by James M. Freeman, one of the first books chronicling the Vietnamese American experience, or The Vietnamese American 1.5 Generation: Stories of War, Revolution, Flight and New Beginnings by Sucheng Chan, for a more current look at the community.

Prior to the Fall of Saigon in 1975, there were only a handful of Vietnamese in America. After the Vietnam War ended, the initial wave of 125,000 refugees were first put in four refugee camps: Fort Chaffee, Arkansas; Eglin Air Force Base, Florida; Fort Indiantown Gap, Pennsylvania; and Camp Pendleton, California. These refugees were matched with sponsors, often church groups, who helped them assimilate to American life.

The next wave of refugees, often referred to as "boat people," would take place in the late 1970s and early 1980s as they fled communist reeducation camps and persecution of ethnic Chinese. An estimated 1 million people who were members of the former South Vietnamese government and military were "reeducated," some as long as 17 years. Learn more about the reeducation camps and definitely go see "Journey From the Fall" if you ever get the chance.

Thai Nakorn Burned Down

Thai Nakorn, one of my favorite Thai restaurants in Garden Grove, burned down late last night! Read the article here. Sniffle. Read Elmo's wonderful review here. I guess it'll have to serve as a tribute until Thai Nakorn can relocate or reopen. I wrote a little more about it at OC Food Blogs here. January 28, 2007 update: Thai Nakorn fans can now rejoice. The owners will rebuild, but don't know where or when yet. Read the rest of what I wrote for OC Food Blogs here.